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Taking Stock at Tavistock - with Anastassis Spiliadis & Dr Anna Hutchinson

Anastassis Spiliadis is a psychotherapist and psychologist based in London & Athens, working with individuals couples and families. He works clinically in private practice and as an Education Lead in the NHS. He has worked for many years with people of all ages affected by eating disorders, gender-related distress, relationship challenges and often enduring mental health difficulties.
Anastassis worked in the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) at The Tavistock Clinic as a clinician and trainer between 2015 and 2019 where he also established and led a Family Therapy Clinic. There he witnessed and reported unethical clinical practices alongside some thoughtful work by other therapists. He disagreed openly with the service’s treatment model and in 2017 coined the term Gender Exploratory Therapy aiming to develop a therapeutic approach away from conversion and affirmative practices.
Anastassis continues to work with gender-related distress alongside his generic practice and supervises and trains clinicians and  University students from different modalities.
He is particularly interested in the development and evaluation of treatment approaches for eating disorders, gender-related distress and co-occurring difficulties holding on to a family-focused and developmental lens. 
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Dr Anna Hutchinson is a London based clinical psychologist with twenty-five years of frontline experience. She is the co-director of an independent practice and employed by the NHS as an Education Lead. Clinically, she specializes in adolescent mental health, gender and physical health.
Anna worked in the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) at The Tavistock Clinic at a senior level between 2013 and 2017 where she witnessed unprecedented changes in the patient demographics, referral numbers and an emerging evidence base that challenged practice. Her publications document a shift in her thinking as a result - in 2016 she was writing from a gender affirmative position, by 2019-2020 she was discussing rapid/late onset gender dysphoria and detransition/regret. Her testimony alongside those of many colleagues, formed a key part of the narrative in “Time to Think: The Inside Story of the Collapse of the Tavistock’s Gender Service for Children,’ by Hannah Barnes.
Since leaving GIDS, Anna has been working with others to improve awareness of the complex needs of young people experiencing gender related distress. She continues to teach and write in the area, with a particular focus on the need for ethical psychotherapy for young people and families coping with issues related to gender.
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Links:
The Cass Review: https://cass.independent-review.uk
Time to Think: The Inside Story of the Collapse of the Tavistock's Gender Service for Children by Hannah Barnes
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/time-to-think-hannah-barnes/1142106254
Keira Bell: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11065005/I-never-changed-gender-16-Brave-young-woman-reveals-story-Tavistock-clinic.html
 
Data from Tavistock GIDs regarding mental health benefits of puberty blockers: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-66842352
Gender Exploratory Therapy Model: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334559847_Towards_a_Gender_Exploratory_Model_slowing_things_down_opening_things_up_and_exploring_identity_development
In support of research into ROGD
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31317286/
 
Butch Identity Development: The Formation of an Authentic Gender: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0959353505049709
 
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Exploring the Unexpected Penis - with Amanda Kovattana

Amanda Kovattana is a biracial, tri-cultural writer who grew up in Bangkok, in a pre-industrialized Thailand before immigrating to California in 1968. She was born in England to an English mother and a Thai father and lived in England during their college years. As a gender non-conforming child, living in Thailand, she benefited from the “third gender” culture of her Thai heritage. Her coming of age in the San Francisco Bay Area, as a lesbian, introduced her to the gay community and the evolving gay liberation movement. Her skill set draws from her engineer father teaching her how to fix things, while her mother’s profession, as a child therapist and family counselor, gave her an understanding of child development and neurodivergent brain styles. She makes a living as a professional organizer specializing in the chronically disorganized and neurodivergent personalities. In this episode, we discuss her new book, The Unexpected Penis, which is lined in our liner notes.
 
Links:
The Unexpected Penis: https://a.co/d/hHNyOaS
Amanda’s Substack. https://amandakovattana.substack.com
 
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Backpedaling Pediatrics - with Dr Julia Mason

Dr. Julia Mason is a board-certified pediatrician and Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics. She is a graduate of the University of Illinois and completed residency training in Pediatrics at Children's Hospital Los Angeles. Dr. Mason has a busy pediatrics practice; in the past several years she's encountered increasing numbers of gender dysphoric adolescents, most with neurodevelopmental challenges or psychiatric comorbidities. 
 
Last week The AAP Board of Directors voted to reaffirm their 2018 policy statement on gender-affirming care but with an important announcement that they will conduct a systematic review of the evidence and revise their guidance for pediatricians accordingly. Dr Mason has been a leading advocate for that systematic review, so we were excited to have her join us to tell us more.
 
And here’s our conversation with Dr Mason
 
Links:
 
Aug 4, 2023 AAP Statement
https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/25340/AAP-reaffirms-gender-affirming-care-policy?autologincheck=redirected
 
Dr Jason Rafferty’s Original Policy Statement:
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/142/4/e20182162/37381/Ensuring-Comprehensive-Care-and-Support-for?autologincheck=redirected
 
Dr James Cantor’s Critique:
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/SexualOrientation/IESOGI/Other/Rebekah_Murphy_20191214_JamesCantor-fact-checking_AAP-Policy.pdf
 
 
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The Denton Report - with Jamie Reed

This episode is a little different, in that it started as an informal conversation between Aaron Kimberly, Aaron Terrell and our friend Jamie Reed from the LGBT Courage Coalition. We’re weren’t entirely sure it would become a podcast episode, so it might be a little more disorganized than even we are known for.  In this recording, we’re discussing a document that some refer to as the Denton Report which was a joint project in 2019 by the Denton’s Law Firm, Thompson Reuters Foundation, and IGLYO to analyse trans activism in Europe and make recommendations that would advance trans activism elsewhere. As such, it outlines key mandates and strategies, including the focus on children, and forced teaming with other issues. We’ve provided a link to this document below.
 
The Document: https://gendercriticalwoman.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/iglyo_v3-1.pdf
 
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/
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Managing Dysphoria without Transition - with Anna

Anna is a Boston-based musician that has lived with gender incongruence her whole life. After trying medical transition, she decided to move away from this treatment approach for her condition, even after seeing some benefits. Regardless of her approach moving forward, she seeks to reestablish a new relationship with what it means to be a female both physiologically and socially at this very moment in her life. In this, she identifies as a feminist, and someone in solidarity with transsexual people. 
 
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The old hippie soul, on Transsexual Unity - Guest: Marc

Marc is a 40 year old, married transsexual man from Michigan. By day he’s a Senior Legal Processor at a Real Estate Law Firm. He and his wife also have an Etsy business, The Winking Owl Designs.
Marc describes himself as an old hippie soul, an avid animal lover, music lover, cannabis connoisseur, and lover of all humans.
He started speaking publicly about some of the things going on in the LGBT community about a year ago, because he doesn’t agree with many things being pushed by the transgender ideology, especially once they brought children into the fight.
He joined the board of Transsexual Unity to help others find understanding, build bridges, and find common ground through open conversation.
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The Butch Lesbian to Gay Man Pipeline

No guest this week. Instead Aaron T makes the case for why he believes so many butch lesbians become gay transmen after taking testosterone. This is a phenomena widely observed within FtM communities, but neither the people experiencing this sexuality change, nor the clinicians prescribing the hormones, seem to understand why it is happening.
 
A lot of sexological terms are thrown around in this episode and not defined. Here are some terms that might be useful to know:
 
"Allo" means other, or external.
"Auto" means self, or internal.
"Gyno" means female.
"Andro" means male.
"Philia" means love (or, less euphemistically, sexual attraction).
"Meta" means self-referential
 
The vast majority of people are, in sexologic terms, alloheterosexual. A typical heterosexual male is technically "allogynephilic". But a male who is attracted to the thought or image of himself as female is "autogynephilic", while a female who is attracted to herself as male is "autoandrophilic". Both can collectively be referred to as "autoheterosexual". The final term above, meta, is used in this context to describe the type of external sexual behaviors of autoheterosexuals, who often experience (and act upon) homosexual desires as a means of validating their self-perception as the opposite sex. For example, an autogynephilic male is not attracted to other males (not alloandrophilic), but sexual behavior with males serves as a validation of the self as female. That is metaandrophilia.
 
Aaron T mentions a recent episode of the 'A Special Place in Hell' podcast: https://youtu.be/PoJnbL9QMq8

Special Series - National Transgender Health Summit - Ep. 3 - APA

Don't listen to this podcast. At least not here. Head over to YouTube https://youtu.be/UKQErjjStIk where you will find a transcript to accompany the often difficult to hear audio. 
 
In the third installment of our special series covering the 2023 National Transgender Health Summit, we bring you the recording of a task force from the American Psychological Association (APA), who were presenting their working Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Transgender and Gender Diverse People. All four people on the task force identify as transgender or non-binary.
 
Here is the current version of the APA’s Guidelines, written in 2015:
https://www.apa.org/practice/guidelines/transgender.pdf
 
We were grateful to again be joined by a Bay Area pediatrician who attended the conference and was at this session with Aaron T.

AAP: Aaron, Aaron & Phil

We brought Phil Illy back for the launch his book: Autoheterosexual: Attracted to Being the Other Sex. Available today as a paperback, with the ebook and hardcover available on Tuesday, June 13th.
Here is what our own Aaron Terrell had to say about Autoheterosexual, "Expertly researched yet entirely accessible to any layperson interested in this topic. Illy explores the most common type of gender dysphoria with compassion and clarity...You will come away from this book with a much deeper understanding of the human experience at the heart of this current cultural phenomenon."
Head over to Amazon (https://t.co/sVsGOmehu9) where you can purchase your copy as well as read reviews from other friends of the pod, including Dr. Michael Bailey.
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Phil Illy is an autoheterosexual author who, in his words, “aims to mainstream autoheterosexuality and destigmatize it so that more of his kind can jettison shame and live in union with their inner cross-gender spirit.” Prior to writing Autoheterosexual: Attraction to Being the Other Sex, Phil received degrees in physics and mechanical engineering before retiring to Portland, Oregon, where he became best known for his skill at handstand twerking and juggling hula hoops.
Where to Find Phil:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/autogynephilic
Substack: https://phililly.substack.com
PayPal: https://paypal.me/phililly
 
Some terms and references are used in this episode that may not be clear to the average listener. Here is a brief glossary of terms:
"Allo" means other, or external.
"Auto" means self, or internal.
"Gyno" means female.
"Andro" means male.
"Philia" means love (or, less euphemistically, sexual attraction).
"Meta" means self-referential
 
The vast majority of people are, in sexologic terms, alloheterosexual. A heterosexual male is technically "allogynephilic". But a male who is attracted to the thought or image of himself as female is "autogynephilic", while a female who is attracted to herself as male is "autoandrophilic". These last two are what our guest has termed "autoheterosexual". The final term above, meta, is used in this context to describe the type of external sexual behaviors of autoheterosexuals, who often experience (and act upon) homosexual desires as a means of validating their self-perception as the opposite sex. For example, an autogynephilic male is not attracted to other males (not alloandrophilic), but sexual behavior with males serves as a validation of the self as female. That is metaandrophilia.
 
Other resources on the topic:
Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism webinar with Dr Michael Bailey about different kinds of gender dysphoria: https://www.youtube.com/live/Hb0RwBgkotA?feature=share
Dr. Michael J. Bailey's book is The Man Who Would be Queen. https://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu...
Dr. Anne Lawrence's book is Men Trapped in Men's Bodies. https://surveyanon.files.wordpress.co...
 

Special Series - National Transgender Health Summit - Ep. 2 - Dr Karasic

In this second episode of our special series on the National Trans Health Summit, we bring you into the room for a presentation by Dr Dan Karasic.  
Karasic is the lead author of the mental health chapter of WPATH’s Standards of Care 8, speaking here about working with patients with autism.
We’re joined by two Bay area clinicians who attended the conference, to provide commentary on the presentation.
 
Please note that the first minute or so of the audio recording is hard to hear but does improve so stay with us.
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